The Scorpion and The Frog

As the Senate Democrats gleefully rejoice over sticking it to the base that helped put them into office and gave them the majority they now enjoy, they might be wise to keep in mind the fable of The Scorpion and The Frog:

The Scorpion and the Frog

One day, a scorpion looked around at the mountain where he lived and decided that he wanted a change. So he set out on a journey through the forests and hills. He climbed over rocks and under vines and kept going until he reached a river.

The river was wide and swift, and the scorpion stopped to reconsider the situation. He couldn't see any way across. So he ran upriver and then checked downriver, all the while thinking that he might have to turn back.

Suddenly, he saw a frog sitting in the rushes by the bank of the stream on the other side of the river. He decided to ask the frog for help getting across the stream.

"Hellooo Mr. Frog!" called the scorpion across the water, "Would you be so kind as to give me a ride on your back across the river?"

"Well now, Mr. Scorpion! How do I know that if I try to help you, you wont try to kill me?" asked the frog hesitantly.

"Because," the scorpion replied, "If I try to kill you, then I would die too, for you see I cannot swim!"

Now this seemed to make sense to the frog. But he asked. "What about when I get close to the bank? You could still try to kill me and get back to the shore!"

"This is true," agreed the scorpion, "But then I wouldn't be able to get to the other side of the river!"

"Alright then...how do I know you wont just wait till we get to the other side and THEN kill me?" said the frog.

"Ahh...," crooned the scorpion, "Because you see, once you've taken me to the other side of this river, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with death, now would it?!"

So the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the river. He swam over to the bank and settled himself near the mud to pick up his passenger. The scorpion crawled onto the frog's back, his sharp claws prickling into the frog's soft hide, and the frog slid into the river. The muddy water swirled around them, but the frog stayed near the surface so the scorpion would not drown. He kicked strongly through the first half of the stream, his flippers paddling wildly against the current.

Halfway across the river, the frog suddenly felt a sharp sting in his back and, out of the corner of his eye, saw the scorpion remove his stinger from the frog's back. A deadening numbness began to creep into his limbs.

"You fool!" croaked the frog, "Now we shall both die! Why on earth did you do that?"

The scorpion shrugged, and did a little jig on the drownings frog's back.

"I could not help myself. It is my nature."

Then they both sank into the muddy waters of the swiftly flowing river.

Every time Joe Lieberman undercuts the Democratic agenda--especially in the realm of foreign policy--the senators who voted for Lieberman can at least take heart that they got to make "The Left" look foolish today.



Display:


Re: The Scorpion and The Frog (none / 0)

I HAD NOT HEARD THAT ONE BEFORE.

ALLZ THE DIARIES ON JOE LIEBERMAN ARE NOT DRIVING ME INSANE.  YOU CALL ME MAD?


When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?
by Jess81 on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 03:25:41 AM EST

Re: The Scorpion and The Frog (none / 0)

When I read the phrase "sticking it to the base" in the opening sentence of the diary, I was reminded of the frame of reference which best characterizes the FAILed "Palin wing" of the Republican party. We must resist any temptation to take this victory and blow it by insisting that Obama must do as his 'base' (presumably ME and everyone smart enough to agree with ME) wants him to do... OR ELSE!

The scorpion and the frog fable does not apply to the Lieberman situation. The much better story to use for an example is "Goodnight Bush".


"But not me personally were those cheers for"
by QTG on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 07:34:00 AM EST

Re: The Scorpion and The Frog (2.00 / 2)

The scorpion and the frog fable does not apply to the Lieberman situation.

Not yet. We'll see in six months. Actually, I think it will be less than six weeks after the Inauguration that Dems will be howling and whining (and Mitch McConnell lauging and Broder nodding with sober "nonpartisan" approbation) at the first big Fuck You Lieberman delivers to Obama  and his protectors in the Senate. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if it happens before the Inauguration.

This isn't about "ME" or "US" or "the BASE". It's about making the country a better place, and Obama and the Dem Senators have just made that harder for themselves, and us.


by BlueinColorado on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 08:23:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Does thinking the worst of people make it better? (2.00 / 1)

Because it sure looks like your method of making things better is punishing the people you don't like just because you have the opportunity to do so.

If Lieberman screws up now (and I don't think he's self-destructive enough to do so, but I could be wrong), then it's on him.  

The closest analogy is Reverend Wright.  Obama forgives him for things he did before; Wright screws up again and Obama justifiably dumps him.  Everyone believes that Wright got what he deserved and nobody holds it against Obama.

Lieberman can commit political seppukku in six months if he wants, but that'll be on him, not us.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 10:14:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

LOL (2.00 / 2)

Yeah, poor Joe Lieberman. I'm such a bloggy meanie. It's not like he's done anything to earn people's contempt or mistrust. He votes with the Dems 85% of the time! And the only thing he disagreed with Democrats about was that pesky little war. And torture. And habeas corpus. And the Unitary Executive. And letting Cheney get away with pretty much everything.

And Obama may be a socialist, it's a good question. And he "fears" (his word) Democratic control of Congress, but that doesn't mean he's not a good Democrat. And it wasn't like he said that only Obama voted to cut off funds for American troops in combat. He said it about a bunch of other Democrats, too. No big deal. And that whole "liberals think President Bush is the enemy, not Osama bin Laden"? Not like that's poisonous demagoguery (and of course he was talking about the Iraq War, which has nothing fucking to do with Iraq, but only a loony, foul-mouthed vituperative blogosphere type would get all worked up about pesky little details like that. Like when Joe says that "Al Qaeda in Iran" is the biggest threat to America. What am I, some nutbag who thinks he's trying to scare Americans' into bombing Tehran, just because he's said that's what he wants a few dozen times. What's the big, dood?)

And I agree with him that Susan Collins and Norm Coleman are much better for the country than Tom Allen and Al Franken (another meanie). And Katrina? A little bit of rain. Why tie up valuable Senate time looking into the deaths of a couple thousand people by government neglect. The French Quarter's back in business! Laissez les bons temps rouler!

I sure do feel bad for "thinking the worst" about a swell fella like Joe Lieberman. I'm gonna go read me some Rick Warren to learn how to look on the sunny side of life!


by BlueinColorado on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 11:13:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Somebody is stuck in election mode (none / 0)

I've never said that Lieberman wasn't a sleazebag.

Do you actually think that he believes any of that rhetoric he used in the election?  Because that seems to be your entire case against him.

McCain said some pretty awful things about Obama, too, and Obama met with him this week to talk shop.  O NOES


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 11:28:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You got it turned around (2.00 / 1)

Lieberman is the frog, and Bush was the scorpion.

Obama is the guy with the boat that doesn't need to play those games.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 09:26:58 AM EST

I, for one, think this is dead on. (none / 0)

This parable was the first thing I thought of when they did it.

Glad to see I wasn't alone.


McCain sucks!
by teknofyl on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 09:52:35 AM EST

Re: The Scorpion and The Frog (none / 0)

It's like when you keep lending money to your friend who can't hold a job down. You're surprised every time he can't pay you back.

Or it's like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KpkvmBOn uw


www.payd.org Keeping PA Blue
by dannybauder on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 10:04:42 AM EST

It really isn't. (2.00 / 1)

It's more like treating a United States Senator like he was fairly elected to four terms by the people of his state, even if he believes in things we don't agree with and does things that we disapprove of.  Because we're adults.

It's exactly like that.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 10:09:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It really isn't. (none / 0)

No one asked the Democrats to expel Lieberman from the Senate, only from the caucus.  We are no more obliged to give Lieberman a committee chairmanship anymore than we are to give Orrin Hatch or Richard Burr committee chairmanships.


by TheUnknown285 on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 10:19:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah and that's dumb (none / 0)

Just dumb as hell.

Sorry.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 10:36:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yeah and that's dumb (none / 0)

How is that dumb?


by TheUnknown285 on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 11:06:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'll explain it (none / 0)

If we can't learn to get along with people willing to caucus with us, how are we going to get along with Republicans to create the bipartisan solutions necessary for the huge challenges facing us... bipartisan solutions that you would essentially force as necessary by the very act of sacrificing a Senate seat in the first place.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 11:13:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll explain it (2.00 / 1)

Fuck bipartisanship.  Bipartisanship has given us NAFTA, CAFTA, the Defense of Marriage Act, the Patriot Act, and Iraq War.  We don't need bipartisanship; we need Democrats to repudiate the conservative ideas that put us in the situation we're in.

Joe Lieberman was publicly considering LEAVING THE CAUCUS before the election.  That isn't "someone willing to caucus with us."  


by TheUnknown285 on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 11:18:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Sigh (none / 0)

The "bipartisanship" that you're talking about is mostly Democrats screwing their own caucus.  We're hoping for something better than that; if you can't strive to be better, what's the point?


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 11:24:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

It's nice to hope, but trusting Lieberman is, like the the diary suggests, the frog trusting the scorpion.


by TheUnknown285 on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 11:29:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Like I said originally (none / 0)

Lieberman isn't the scorpion, he was the frog and Bush was the scorpion.  

Calling Lieberman a scorpion is giving him too much credit.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 11:36:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (2.00 / 2)

The "bipartisanship" that you're talking about is mostly Democrats screwing their own caucus.  We're hoping for something better than that;

We're hoping for "better than... Democrats who screw their own caucus" by clinging to Joe Lieberman, thus ensuring that people like Ken Salazar, Mark Pryor and Bill Nelson feel free to screw the party at will, knowing that there will be no consequences?

Sigh.


by BlueinColorado on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 11:31:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (2.00 / 1)

Hear, hear.  It's time to make examples of some unnecessary Blue Dogs and DLCers.  Ben Nelson has an excuse.  Joe Lieberman doesn't.  Jane Harman doesn't.  Tom Carper doesn't.


by TheUnknown285 on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 11:33:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"clinging to?" (none / 0)

Like guns and religion?

But seriously, you seem to be having trouble understanding the concept of "a new sheriff in town."

All this is taking place before Obama and the new, stronger Democratic majority come to power.  We can safely forgive the past if it means securing the future and still make it clear that the shenanigans stop.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 11:35:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "clinging to?" (none / 0)

We can safely forgive the past if it means securing the future and still make it clear that the shenanigans stop.

Yes, and we can be sure the future is secure and the shenanigans will stop, because we're counting on the goodwill and high principle of Joe Lieberman, who will not betray the Democrats again because then they'll.... oh, wait, no they won't.

You seem to have trouble understanding the concept of "Joe Lieberman doesn't give a shit about the new sheriff", and nothing earns the wrath of someone like Joe Lieberman like having a hold over him.


by BlueinColorado on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 11:40:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah. (none / 0)

I do seem to be having trouble with that, because it's not based in objective reality.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 11:45:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "clinging to?" (2.00 / 1)

Again, let's hope you're right and Obama's not naively setting himself up for betrayal by Lieberman, McCain, and all of the other people he's already beaten.


by TheUnknown285 on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 11:50:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah (none / 0)

I just don't want to second guess the guy who beat them all before he gets a chance to do anything.

Obama ain't naive; that much is clear.  I fully expect people who cross him to meet the bag of hammers.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 12:02:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll explain it (none / 0)

58-1=49?

Arlen Specter, Olympia Snowe, Chuck Grassley are going to vote differently because Joe Lieberman's feelings are hurt?


by BlueinColorado on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 11:18:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Depends (none / 0)

I dunno.  Honestly, I think they'll be moderates, but I don't know for certain, just like you don't know for certain that Lieberman will screw us.  Republicans have been famous recently for caucus solidarity... even those folks you mention.

All I know is that the larger the Democratic caucus, the easier it will be to get things done.  Adults would shoot for that.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 11:22:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

BTW (2.00 / 2)

I love how you make an argument for maturity and common ground by relentlessly insulting people who disagree with you. Is that something most adults do, in your experience?


by BlueinColorado on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 11:26:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Er, what? (none / 0)

"Relentlessly insulting?"

Run that by me again?


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 11:30:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Er, what? (2.00 / 2)

"dumb as hell", constantly dismissing people who disagree with you as not "adult" or "stuck in election mode".

You really don't think you're being condescending? Wow.


by BlueinColorado on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 11:32:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh come on (none / 0)

I'm being a little condescending, sure, but not outside the bounds of normal rhetorical debate, and by internet standards I'm a fucking kitten.

"Dumb as hell" refers to the argument that we should intentionally reduce the size of our caucus, when increasing the size of our caucus is our goal.  

"Adult" refers to the fact that nearly every argument against Lieberman here appears to be based in spite instead of honest truth, which is not a virtue most adults care to tout for themselves.

"Stuck in election mode" refers to the particularly specious nature of the conflict: it's no revolutionary thinking that politicians (yes, even our Obama) say some crazy shit they don't really mean during elections just to get an advantage over the other guy.  Lieberman backed the wrong horse and believed he had to double down on it to make it pay off.  We seem to be getting over it with Hillary Clinton and John McCain; why are we still on it with Joe?


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 11:44:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Scorpion and The Frog (2.00 / 1)

Let us not forget that Liberman can still have his committee chair taken away AT ANY TIME! One wrong move from him and he could still get the axe.


by venician on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 10:08:07 AM EST

I wondered about that too. (none / 0)

If this is the case, Lieberman now has much more to lose by acting the goat than he otherwise would. I suspect this "independent" democrat is going to be much more enthusiastic about towing the line.


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Wed Nov 19, 2008 at 01:34:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.